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Trying to Figure Out Word Order, But All Traffic Disappears

(13 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by timjamesbrennan
  • Latest reply from Brent

  1. timjamesbrennan
    Member

    I keep coming up against a problem that I would really appreciate some help with.

    What happens is I find a phrase with great numbers in Market Samurai. I then go over to the Google keyword tool (https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal) to figure out the word order.

    The phrase scores really highly for broad match, but really poorly for phrase match. I switch the order of the words to try and figure out the word order, but still the traffic numbers are all too low.

    I have tried the same keywords with some added modifiers, but they are too competitive.

    I have an analogy in my head that market samurai is like a metal detector that will beep when you get close to some treasure even if you aren't right on top of it. Then when you are right on top of it you find the gold is too deep to be worth digging out.

    Is this analogy accurate? If so I am guessing I should ignore these occurances and move on...

    I would really like some advice (I don't mind if the answer is a complicated one).

    Posted 1 year ago #

  2. ishabluebell
    Member

    Tim, that's been bugging me, too. For nearly all the keywords I've been putting through the Google Adwords free Keyword Tool, I get lots of broad match results. But put all the variations of the keyword into the tool for phrase-match* and I get zipadidooday. Here's what I've been asking myself: Where oh where have all the broad-match searches gone? Under the table? - no, not there. In the bread-bin? - no, they're not there - so where are they? I think Google's hiding them somewhere, but where they're hiding them is the mystery. I always learnt at school that 1+1=2, but Google seems to be bent on proving the teachers wrong...

    Isha

    *That's 6 different phrases for a 3-word keyword term and 2 different phrases for a 2-word keyword term

    Posted 1 year ago #

  3. Brent
    Administrator

    There's one missing element here.

    Let's say you have a keyword... "Rainbow Trout Fishing"

    The keyword variations are:

    Rainbow Trout Fishing
    Rainbow Fishing Trout
    Trout Fishing Rainbow
    Trout Rainbow Fishing
    Fishing Rainbow Trout
    Fishing Trout Rainbow

    HOWEVER... there's also the POTENTIAL that the most-searched keyword variation is:

    Fishing for Rainbow Trout
    or
    Rainbow Trout Fly Fishing

    This is one of the reasons why broad match is so valuable as it will show you where the traffic is. The problem with it is it can leave out important words.

    In general, phrase-match will tell you which keyword variation is the best. But this issue is one of the few places this strategy will let you down.

    Brent

    Posted 1 year ago #

  4. ishabluebell
    Member

    Oooooooh. That is SO useful to know. Perhaps the Digger tool would find some more keyword combos that would fit your description...

    Isha

    Posted 1 year ago #

  5. Brent
    Administrator

    Oooooooh. That is SO useful to know. Perhaps the Digger tool would find some more keyword combos that would fit your description...

    Isha

    SEO Digger will give you more keywords, but even SEO Digger's computers aren't smart enough to understand the English language in the same way that you or I might. :(

    Brent

    Posted 1 year ago #

  6. ishabluebell
    Member

    :-(

    Posted 1 year ago #

  7. IceCube
    Member

    What is the criteria when we check which keyword variations is the best in Google Keyword Tool External?

    In MS we look for:
    SEOT(broad match) > 80

    In Google Keyword Tool External, we look for:
    *SEOT(phrase match) > ?

    * Keyword Phrase Match Approx Ave Search volume/30 X 0.42

    Posted 1 year ago #

  8. Brent
    Administrator

    Hi IceCube,

    To make sure I've understood your question correctly, I'm going to repeat it back. Let me know if I've misinterpreted it.

    Let's say you have a keyword that looks good in Market Samurai - "rainbow trout fishing" - and you want to make sure that you have the word order correct.

    You take the keyword and mix-and-match it into the Google Keyword Tool External:

    Rainbow Trout Fishing
    Rainbow Fishing Trout
    Trout Fishing Rainbow
    Trout Rainbow Fishing
    Fishing Rainbow Trout
    Fishing Trout Rainbow

    And check the traffic levels phrase-matched.

    You want to know what specific details you are looking at here?

    I look at two factors...

    http://www.marketsamurai.com/jing/2008-10-13_1255.png

    The first is the traffic levels.

    The keyword that uses the optimal word order has the highest level of traffic.
    The more traffic, the better.

    The second is "Advertiser Competition" - generally the optimal keyword combination also has the highest level of advertiser competition.

    Adwords confirms the keyword

    I hope this helps

    Brent

    Posted 1 year ago #

  9. ishabluebell
    Member

    I use the same criteria as the training, ie >200 searches, BUT it's >200 *phrase-matched* searches I'm looking for. Or if I'm looking for category keywords and the other stats are good, then I might lower the acceptable number of phrase-matched searches I'm wanting.

    I don't bother checking the Traffic numbers when I'm using the Keyword Tool. It's something I might calculate once I know I have a good keyword, but no point wasting time on calculations at this point IMO. It's bad enough having to do the searches/30 business...

    ;-)

    Thanks for the Advertiser Competition tip Brent.

    Isha

    Posted 1 year ago #

  10. IceCube
    Member

    @Brent

    Yes, you understood my question correctly.

    Taking "rainbow trout fishing" as the example:

    My self formulated
    SEOT(phrase match) = 3600/30 x 0.42 = 50

    So, for SEOT(phrase match), do you need to set a minimum figure?
    The minimum for SEOT(broad match) = 80

    @Isha

    200 phrase match/day x 0.42 = 84
    So, your criteria for SEOT(broad match) is the same for SEOT(phrase match)
    IE. >80.

    I agree, it's a time saver to just look for 200 phrase match.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  11. Brent
    Administrator

    @Isha - Handy tip! Thanks for sharing! :)

    You're right, 80 SEOT was chosen because it roughly equated to 200 searches per day...

    200 hits to a web-site is a 30 Day Challenge benchmark used for testing traffic (200 hits, at least one sale = a strong market).

    And 200 searches per day gives a higher likelihood of getting 200 hits very quickly.

    @IceCube - The SEOT >80 (broad match) figure was a benchmark "invented" for the 30 Day Challenge... A minimum threshold for traffic that we could tell 30 Day Challenge participants (many of whom had no internet marketing experience) not to bother with low-traffic keywords.

    Isha's got a good formula. You could go even higher than 200 if you wanted.

    Obviously the higher your minimum traffic threshold is, the fewer keywords will meet your criteria, the more time you'll spend on keyword research, and the more guaranteed your results will be.

    I hope this helps.

    Brent

    Posted 1 year ago #

  12. IceCube
    Member

    That was helpful. Thank you Brent.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  13. Brent
    Administrator

    Happy to help :)

    Posted 1 year ago #

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